Thursday 28 Mar 2024
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Tun Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, Malaysia’s fifth prime minister, has seen the pinnacle of success and the depths of disappointment in a political career that spans three decades. Taking over the top political office from a combative Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad, the affable Abdullah led the ruling Barisan Nasional coalition to its best ever electoral showing in 2004. Eight years later, he was to witness its worst performance in a general election, and handed over power to Datuk Seri Najib Razak on April 3, 2009, a tumultuous one year after that watershed event. Unlike his predecessor who continues to loom over national affairs, Abdullah, who is universally known as Pak Lah, has mostly kept his own counsel. In his first interview since stepping down, Pak Lah and his wife Tun Jeanne Abdullah speak to The Edge’s executive editors Azam Aris and M. Shanmugam and associate editor R B Bhattacharjee about life after the political tsunami of March 8, 2008.

We arrive on a sunny January morning at Pak Lah’s residence, a stately Malay mansion set on a rise overlooking two acres of rolling landscape in Kampung Sungai Penchala, a slice of Malay Reserve land tucked into an uptown nook of Kuala Lumpur.

The high wooden gate is opened by a security detail at the sound of our car, and we enter a well-tended compound lush with colourful flora. The ambience is somewhat like that of a botanical garden. It is an effort to remember that we are cheek by jowl with Taman Tun Dr Ismail and that a stone’s throw away, traffic is mindlessly thundering down the Damansara-Puchong Highway (LDP). No sound from the hustle-bustle of the outside world reaches this enchanting paradise.

As we enter the living room, Pak Lah greets us in his usual genial manner, his craggy face breaking into a cheerful smile. He is perky and eager to chat. Jeanne is busy briefly, supervising the domestic help, then comes over to make sure that we are comfortable and feeling at home.

As we settle into the functional sofa and take in the airy feel of the open architecture, Pak Lah fills us in about the neighbourhood, describing its transformation from a nondescript village when he bought the property two decades ago to the prized real estate it is today.

He looks relaxed, the weight of his 71 years sitting lightly on his shoulders as he engages us in casual conversation. Jeanne joins the discussion, unobtrusively verifying dates and details when specifics escape his memory.

As the questions begin, it is sometimes difficult to tell whether our point is clear, as Pak Lah often seems to be lost in his thoughts while we patter on. Only when he starts his response does it become apparent that he was recalling some event that had made a deep impression on him and which he wants to tell us about. Here are some of the experiences he shared:

On life after politics
Although it is quite a contrast between the high-octane life at the pinnacle of power on the one hand and the more sedate routine of a retired prime minister, Pak Lah says he has “coped very well”.

“I have no difficulty living the life of a pensioner,” he affirms, the only drawback being that there are not enough staff members to execute the duties that he still pursues. Pak Lah is adviser to the five development corridors that were launched during his tenure as prime minister. He is also chairman of the Institute of Islamic Understanding of Malaysia (IKIM) and patron of the International Institute of Advanced Islamic Studies (IAIS), which is his brainchild,  founding patron of the World Islamic Economic Forum and Member of Parliament for Kepala Batas.
The gleaming black Morris Minor, which Pak Lah found abandoned in Kepala Batas then resotred to showroom condition
He is equally active internationally. He is member of the InterAction Council of Former Heads of State and Government, member of board of director for Boao Forum for Asia and World Muslim Foundation, and Chair of the Commonwealth Eminent Persons Group.

As with other public figures, retirement for him means “being able to do things that I couldn’t do before, to go to places I hadn’t gone before”.
Recently, one of these places included the Belum forest, where he spent the night in the wilderness. “Then I went to Endau-Rompin, drove right inside the jungle. We were there for three nights,” he says, relishing the memory.

“It’s exciting. This is my country. Tourists come here, but I had never been to these places, although we talk of promoting tourism,” says Pak Lah, bemused at the thought. More excursions are on the cards, he assures us.

Then, there are all the malls and department stores. “I had never been to them, except on the way to some place. Naturally, I recall when I had been to places overseas and compare with what’s here. Not bad, this is like LA or London. You see all the stores and all the goods,” he says.

altJeanne adds another perspective: “If I have a few things to buy, I never go with him because he will stop at every shop and be amazed at the things they have.”

Then there are all the people who want to take pictures with him. Jeanne can finish her Christmas shopping and still there will be people taking pictures with him, she says.

Says Pak Lah: “It’s a life I don’t regret ... catching up with old friends whom we have not seen for a long time.”

For Jeanne, the adjustment was the other way round, when she assumed the responsibilities of being the prime minister’s wife. “Retirement brings me back to what I had been so accustomed to for 54 years,” she says.

“As the PM’s wife, I am glad I was able to do some things, like being the president of the Malaysian Paralympic Council, which I am passionate about,” she says.

Jeanne is also Chancellor of the Open University, which she likes very much “because it appeals to people who did not have the opportunity to study previously”. In addition, she set up Secretariat Malaysia Prihatin, a non-governmental organisation that furthers the caring society goal.

Landskap Malaysia, a not-for-profit body set up under the initiative of Pak Lah and Jeanne to promote the importance of the landscape and environment, holds special meaning for them. “It is about the environment of the whole country, not just the gardens,” says Jeanne.

She speaks enthusiastically about her herbal and medicinal garden, which doubles up as a project to preserve the culinary and folk wisdom of a bygone generation.

“Not the hybrids,” she says. “I don’t believe in them.”

It is certainly far more than a hobby for her, as she tends 10 greenhouses at one time. Today, just one remains, providing sufficient greens for their own consumption. She plans to start growing more such plants again after a rest.

“These activities keep me occupied in my own space,” says Jeanne contentedly.

Most of all, retirement has given her time for the family.

“I never had time before. Sometimes we missed their birthdays, but now, whenever everyone is in town, we get together,” she says, relishing the thought.

Their four grandchildren like to visit, says Jeanne. “We didn’t have time for grandchildren. We used to see them, hand them over and say bye-bye. Now they come and run and play. It’s fun. The older ones come with their board games and all of us join in. That’s family, that’s home and that’s peace,” says Jeanne.

Highlight of the day
For Pak Lah, the morning routine includes reading the newspapers, then going to either his office at Putrajaya or at IKIM. “Those who want to see me sometimes call at my house and we have a coffee,” he says.

Golfing friends are calling him to take up the game again, which he promises himself he will.

“I often go back to Kepala Batas, too,” he adds.

He dwells on IKIM’s activities for a while, speaking of its popular radio show, its seminars and forums, which fill up the institute’s weekly schedule.

“When Imam Feisal [Abdul Rauf] was here, I asked him to meet IKIM staff and others, and we had a discussion about the mosque (Cardoba House) he plans to build near Ground Zero [the site of New York’s World Trade Center that was destroyed in a terrorist attack in Sept 11, 2001],” says Pak Lah.

For Jeanne, her pet NGOs or her garden claim the best part of her day.
“At Seri Perdana [the prime ninister’s official residence], I had planted 129 species of medicinal herbs and spices, all edible. Many of them have been forgotten by people nowadays. They were things that our parents and grandparents had used,” she says.

“I would like to promote these plants throughout country. We should grow a bit of vegetables and herbs in our homes. This is a mission of Landskap Malaysia.”

Her pet project is tree-planting. “This is a country of trees,” Jeanne declares. “I go in wherever there’s space and get children to plant trees. We have a programme to plant as many trees as the school can take. Children can put their names on them and grow with the trees.

“I look forward to breakfast because we never had time for that,” says Jeanne. “We watch TV — the cooking shows, history,” she adds.
Pak Lah interjects that before this, he hardly watched the telly.

Says Jeanne: “Sometimes we grab a light meal and sit and watch TV ... we’re so happy ... until one of us falls asleep and the other switches off the TV.”

“We get the mornings to ourselves,” says Jeanne, glad for the privilege.
Pak Lah: “Sometimes we get the thought, let’s go and see so and so. Let’s go to Tanjung Malim and ... we do things like that, driven by impulse.”

Jeanne: “He likes to drive. He’s a fast driver.”

Pak Lah: “I enjoy driving. Formerly, where was there time?”

His favourite is a silver Mercedes sports that sits below the living room along with a couple of classics, all bearing his favourite number, 13. “You keep the car so long, when you want to start it, it won’t come alive,” says Pak Lah of the time before retirement.

One is a gleaming black Morris Minor, which was found abandoned in Kepala Batas. “I was told about this car, it was in a workshop, lallang growing inside it, but the engine and chassis numbers were still there,” says Pak Lah. “The car was then restored to showroom condition. One day, I drove it to Seremban, to Mohamad Hassan’s (MB of Negeri Sembilan) house. He was so surprised!”

“My first car, which I bought in ‘64 was a Mini Cooper. I sold it, but later wanted to get it back,” he says. The last owner, a teacher, said it was taken away by a scrap metal dealer. “My friend got the Mini Cooper gang to look for it, and they found it. It was so pathetic ... no more doors ... felt so sad, I wanted it restored ... took one year,” says Pak Lah nostalgically. “I insisted that every part must be genuine.”

“I told my son, Kamal, I have something to show you. When you were one year old, you liked to sit on a chair and hold on to the steering wheel while you were fed. You would go ‘vrooom’ and spit out all the rice. You wanted to drive the car, right? So, I’ll sit beside you now while you drive the car,” says Pak Lah, beaming at the memory.

Jeanne: “It’s fun. We take it out for a drive and many people will slow down to look at the car. They get the shock of their lives when they see who’s driving.”

Pak Lah: “Previously, you didn’t get to see anything. You arrive, somebody will be waiting, the ambassador, protocol people, then straight to the hotel, all the officers will be waiting.”

He enacts the dialogue to give a sense of the clockwork routine during these tours of duty:

“ ‘So, what’s the programme?’

‘Breakfast, then briefing, topics of discussion ...’

‘Who am I meeting?’ “

There were occasions when he would arrive in the morning, get a briefing, then attend a meeting at 2pm. The next day, after breakfast, it was time to leave, he says, aghast at the memory of those hectic days.

Jeanne: “Once, we did seven cities in 10 days. We were exhausted, but there was no time to recuperate, because there was a full programme at home.”

Holidays when he was prime minister were just once a year. “His favourite was to do the umrah on the way back from a working trip,” says Jeanne. “He would be prepared beforehand, it was just go in and out.”

“I like to go to Perth, it’s not too far. I like trawling,” says Pak Lah, savouring the thought.

Early experiences
Pak Lah counts his involvement in the students association, Gabungan Pelajar-Pelajar Melayu Semenanjung, as a formative influence on his political career. He joined the association in Form 2, and became its president when he was studying at Universiti Malaya from 1962 to 1965.

“The May 13, 1969, race riots shaped my political thinking,” says Pak Lah. “It made me realise many things. Personally, I was shocked that it happened.”

He recalls a scene at the junction of Mountbatten Road (now Jalan Tun Perak) and Batu Road (Jalan Tuanku Abdul Rahman), where a lorryload of DAP supporters were demonstrating.

“[DAP leader] V David had a long-handled brush in his hands, which he was waving about, saying ‘sapu dia, sapu dia’,” says Pak Lah. “I was very upset.”

“Sometime after that, we heard the news about Kampung Baru ... the fighting and killing had started. I was in the Public Services Department (now JPA) at Federal House.

“Two months after, I was asked to go to MAGERAN (the National Operations Council — NOC). I was the KPSU (principal assistant secretary), in charge of the station at MAGERAN and I was responsible for council matters. If [second prime minister] Tun [Abdul] Razak chaired, I would take notes,” says Pak Lah.

“The experience has remained with me, in the form of a deep concern about the unity of Malaysians and what we have to do to ensure the incident will not happen again. I remember the meetings at the consultative council that Tun Razak had set up. There were political parties, individuals, NGOs in the group. It was a no-holds-barred setting. Tun Razak would encourage people to speak their minds. ‘Cakaplah apa-apa,’ he would say.”

“His deputy, Tun Dr Ismail [Abdul Rahman], criticised us, ‘We must not sweep things under the carpet. There are some things we should do, and some that we should not do’, and so on,” says Pak Lah. ‘We are also to be blamed for all the things that are happening,’ he said. ‘We cannot absolve ourselves.’ It was more frank than in Parliament.”

“Then the ideas were put forward, about how to build unity, and the areas we should focus on. The secretariat would take notes. This was crystallised into the Rukunegara, and the need for a bigger coalition to reduce the in-fighting among our parties,” Pak Lah says, speaking from a ringside view of the nation’s eventful early history.

“Tun Razak was special. When he was appointed to head the NOC, he was given powers. We used to say he had the powers of [British High Commissioner Sir] Gerald Templar. Like a dictator, he could do anything. The NOC could make policies, issue any instruction,” he says.

“I remember being very excited when the NOC decided to do something, and we had to communicate the instruction to the permanent secretary of the relevant agency. ‘This is the instruction, NOC, i.e. No Other Choice’ we used to say.”

“People were excited. Something had to be done, so, the cooperation was tremendous. Tun Razak was able to get the civil servants to feel the urgency of what needed to be done,” says Pak Lah, energised by the spirit of that historic period.

The NOC was made up of the unity leaders, representing the various parties, from the community, and the chief of the armed forces and the inspector-general of police, he says. Others were Tan Sri Abdul Kadir Shamsuddin for the civil service, Tan Sri Ghazali Shafie as the foreign secretary, Tan Sri Hamzah Abu Samah, who was with the Ministry of Information.

“The whole world needed to know what was happening to Malaysia and what was being done. We had to keep the foreign embassies constantly updated. The communications were very well managed,” says Pak Lah.
“Tun Razak liked to discuss the ideas he had, and get the consensus of the others. The NOC meetings were very interesting, very interesting,” he says with much enthusiasm.

“For me, to be able to listen to the views of all these people was very inspiring. It gave you the confidence that they do care about this country.”

“The other thing about Tun Razak was that he was a democrat. The day he announced that the NOC was to be disbanded, nobody knew about it, not even the three representatives of the different communities. I could see how surprised they looked. He didn’t tell them [beforehand],” says Pak Lah.

“Tun Razak could have continued indefinitely, but he decided that a lot of good work had already been done, and it was time to go back to Parliament.”

There was silence among the council members, says Pak Lah, with a mixture of awe at Tun Razak’s action and amusement at the surprise his announcement created. “It was not as if the people were against us. We were doing very well,” he emphasises. “But that was Tun Razak, a great man.”

As he recalls the events of that period, Pak Lah notes that he is virtually the only surviving person who was actively involved in the NOC meetings. It leaves us with a distinct sense of an era that is fading into the annals of history.

Below, Tun Abdullah Ahmad Badawi responded to questions on politics and policy matters during his term as prime minister.

The Edge: When you became the prime minister, you sent out some of the best messages, such as that open tenders would be the norm and that the media would have more freedom. You also initiated reforms in the government-linked companies (GLCs), where businesses that were previously under the domain of the well-connected in corporate Malaysia were managed by a set of professional managers. While some measures such as the freedom of media became a reality, sadly others did not pan out as expected. For instance, we did not see open tenders for large projects such as the Second Penang Bridge and the double-tracking railway project for the northern stretch. What prevented you from implementing what you had promised?
Abdullah: I agree. Some reforms did not happen fast enough. But the intention was always there to make things more open and to enhance professionalism. For example, I wanted to make the GLCs more efficient, so I asked Nor Mohamed Yakcop (then second finance minister) to look into restructuring Khazanah and revamping the way that GLCs were run. So now, for example, the senior management of Khazanah and GLCs are better paid, much closer to market rates. We can hire established and proven professionals who would otherwise be hesitant to leave higher paying jobs. There is better efficiency and the concept of KPIs is widely accepted. The entire reforms to GLCs, beginning with Khazanah, is something that I am responsible for.

As for the second part of your question, it is true that we wanted to have more open tenders, but I realised later that the reality was a bit more complicated. The Penang Bridge for example — we decided to award the land portion to UEM because of its involvement in the first bridge. The argument proffered was that they had spent a lot of money to acquire the first bridge and had certain targeted returns which their shareholders expected. The second bridge would cannibalise toll collection on the first bridge. Based on such arguments, we awarded it to UEM. MOF is the concessionaire through Second Bridge Sdn Bhd. The contract was shared between UEM and China Harbour (as the Chinese government provided a soft loan at a low interest rate when we did not have money). But in hindsight, perhaps we should have called for an open tender and let UEM compete on its own merits.

The deferment of the double-tracking project was purely for financial reasons. Remember, at the end of 2003, we were running at a high budget deficit — 5.3%. In fact, in December 2003, barely a month after I became prime minister, some senior Treasury officials told me that we would have difficulty meeting some immediate government commitments. This was the actual situation, contrary to what someone else has been saying. I had to make an immediate decision to divest some government holdings in a GLC to meet these commitments. You should also recall that the LOI [letter of intent] for the double tracking project was issued prior to my taking over as prime minister. In fact, many last minute deals were pushed through. Therefore, the government was already committed and there was nothing I could do about it. So I told Gamuda that if the project were to be reactivated, the first right of refusal would be given to Gamuda-MMC. Otherwise, the government could be sued.

You have to be fair to people. For example, the licence for sports betting was also issued just before I became prime minister and finance minister. The licence fee had been collected but I only found out after I took over, I was not informed before by the man who approved it. I realised that issuing another gambling licence would be indefensible, and morally wrong. I had the unpleasant task of telling [Tan Sri] Vincent Tan that I could not agree to the government proceeding with the sports betting that he was proposing and we returned the licence fee to him.

Do you think such measures were too drastic for Umno and corporate Malaysia to accept ? Did it contribute to your early retirement?
Yes, perhaps it did contribute in a way. Change is always difficult to accept and those who are unhappy will try and preserve the status quo. I remember even small things were resisted. For example, some people opposed the government harm reduction plan to stop the spread of AIDS, but in the end we did it because nobody could come up with a better solution. I remember when Tabung Haji wanted to list its plantation company, many people objected saying we shouldn’t allow non-Muslims to invest in Tabung Haji and so on. These same people are still around making unreasonable demands and irresponsible statements today. But when Tabung Haji Plantations was listed, all the investors made a lot of money and no one complained. Today, the shares are doing even better and contributors to Tabung Haji are getting good dividends. My point is that sometimes we are so entrenched, anything new will be resisted.

At least for the private sector, I did manage to get the public sector to coordinate with it effectively. The launch of Pemudah is a good example of that and was a precursor to the transformation that Najib is doing now with all his transformation plans. And I tried to keep dialogue going with the corporate sector. Perhaps I raised expectations that change would come quickly; that was my fault. Unfortunately, it takes a long time to change attitudes and mindsets.

During your tenure, you established what was known as the Fourth Floor. It was seen as a body comprising highly qualified but inexperienced executives who were perceived as being able to influence crucial policies governing key industries. One was the National Automotive Policy that was highly criticised. What prompted you to establish the Fourth Floor? Why didn’t you want to follow what previous prime ministers did, which was to have a string of advisers to handle various matters?
The Fourth Floor was something coined by people with vested interests to discredit my aides. I did have advisers. Every prime minister or president has advisers. My advisers were my Cabinet colleagues and senior civil servants, including foreign affairs adviser, economic adviser, religious affairs adviser and so on ... They were all very senior people like Tan Sri Kadir, Tan Sri Nor Mohamed, Tan Sri Abdul Hamid Othman ... I always gave a chance to people to make their case.

Besides, for the committees that I created, I appointed private sector personnel whom I could ask for advice.

The so-called Fourth Floor were my support staff. It just happened that some of these support staff were on the fourth floor of the Prime Minister’s Office; some were on the fifth floor and some on the first floor. They were not my advisers. They provided support services. Previous prime ministers had their support staff; the current prime minister has his support staff. In fact of the three or four mentioned as the ‘Fourth Floor’, all were already working for the government in different capacities. I just asked them to join the Prime Minister’s Department because they had been noticed and were doing a good job in their previous jobs. I reiterate that they were not advisers. They carried out instructions from me and the Cabinet.

But one thing to note is that I was transparent. My officers were known; they were paid by the government and bound by government rules and secrecy laws.

You talked about Malaysia having First World infrastructure but a Third World mindset. In the Ninth Malaysia Plan, policies were targeted to change this scenario. How far do you think you have succeeded in achieving these goals?
I think I set the ball rolling in the right direction. And I’m happy that Najib is taking some of these ideas and building on them. For example, I spoke frequently about things like brain gain and the importance of human capital and now Najib has started the Talent Corporation, which I think is a great idea. The MACC has come in for a lot of criticism, but I think it is beginning to show results. But I always told Najib and my Cabinet colleagues that policies are not cast in stone. When I handed over to Najib, I told him that if he can improve on policies I initiated, or  if he wants to discard policies for the good of the country, he should go ahead. I am not going to raise hell if he changes policies because I understand that things change, situations change and that we are not infallible. When things change, situations change, policies need to be changed. It is an evolving thing. As a former prime minister, I have had my chance, my opportunity. Now it’s Najib’s turn. If I don’t agree with something, I will give him my views in private, if he wants to listen. That is the way it should be.

But as far as this ‘soft’ infrastructure is concerned, it takes time and I think change will only happen over time if we keep trying to improve our education system, and inculcate good and noble values especially among the youth.

The concept of economic corridors was your brainchild. Except for the southern region and, to some extent, the Sarawak corridor, the rest are not shaping up as expected. What do you think are the major stumbling blocks? Or were you too ambitious in your plans to spur growth outside the cities?
Iskandar [Malaysia] is a growth corridor that uses its geographical location as an advantage, so it was always going to get more attention. And for the record, I think it is making good progress, despite what the cynics say. I am confident Iskandar will be a strategic success in the future.

But the other corridors are moving too. As at Sept 30, 2010, the total investments committed to all five corridors were at RM252 billion, surpassing the target set under the Ninth Malaysia Plan of RM145 billion. Najib’s announcement in December shows that the Northern Corridor is beginning to gather momentum. Do remember that the corridors are designed for 20 to 25 years and each corridor will progress at different pace. The fact is that concentrating development in cities is not sustainable. We have to spread quality opportunities and investments throughout the country to reduce the strain on cities and also to be fair to people. We’re not just the government of KL, or Penang or the Kinta Valley. The villages and rural areas are part of Malaysia too and they, too, need our attention.

In the 2004 general election, the mandate you secured was the highest ever given to any leader of the ruling party. This was largely because the public in general were expecting policies governing businesses, social and religious issues to be dealt with differently compared with what went on before your appointment. But many did not see it happening in the subsequent years as they felt you did not have the political will to undertake such significant reforms. Subsequently, the poor performance of the BN in the 2008 general election was generally blamed on you and not the coalition as a whole. There have been scathing remarks, particularly from former PM Tun Dr Mahathir on this. Your comments please:
As I said earlier, change is difficult. The political will was there, but the reforms I wanted took longer to implement.

I bear much of the responsibility (for the 2008 general election) because I was prime minister. I think people supported me [in 2004] because they had high expectations of change; but they were disappointed because I did not deliver fast enough. I heard comments that it was ‘same old, same old’. But I think economic conditions played a part too. Oil prices were rising, and in fact rose even further after the elections, so people were in an angry and worried mood. Then we were faced with statements made by some leaders from within the coalition, especially Umno, which the public considered arrogant; incidents such as giving brooms to top civil servants in Selangor, lewd comments such as the ‘bocor’ comments in Parliament by Umno MPs, the raising of the keris, the demolishing of the Hindu temple at Deepavali ... All of these things were contributing factors. But I was the leader, so the main responsibility was mine. However, steps were taken to make certain reforms and these include:

a)  Emphasis on improving human capital;

b)  Improve the quality of education in rural and urban schools;

c)  Improve the skills and professionalism of workers and keep them abreast of technology and modernisation at their places of work;

d)  Reform of the Anti-Corruption Agency, the police force and the judiciary; (Although we did not get everything we wanted, the Bill for the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) and the Judicial Appointment Commission was passed by Parliament during my administration, and the bill for the Enforcement Agency Integrity Commission (EAIC) was passed by the Parliament in the middle of 2009.)

e)  Establishing the Institute of Integrity for the workforce, particularly the public sector;

f)  Setting up Pemudah to realise greater understanding and cooperation between the public and private sector;

g)  Reform of government-linked companies (GLCs) (we managed to achieve the first stage of the GLC transformation programme during my administration and Najib has continued with the ensuing programme);

h)  Reform and improve agriculture by introducing the policy of self-efficiency  and food security;

i)  Create five economic corridors and ensure equitable distribution of quality opportunities and investment in the five corridors;

j)  Revive the National Unity Advisory Panel to encourage frequent discussion among leaders of different religions and communities to enhance acceptance and tolerance among Malaysians; and, one of the most important things, I believe, was

k)  Allowing more space for democratic discourse. Reform cannot happen without liberating the mind.

Not every reform was 100% successful; some are works in progress. Some didn’t find traction because there were influential and powerful pressure groups and individuals who sought to derail these reforms. And some, like the corridors and GLC transformation and open public discourse, are showing signs of success. I suppose it would have been great to see everything roll out effectively and successfully, but I don’t think any political leader in the world has managed to do everything that he promised. I tried and did what I could to the best of my abilities, perhaps that was not enough.

Mahathir continues to criticise you even now. And there has not been any response from you to defend the policies during your tenure. Previous PMs such as Tunku Abdul Rahman and Tun Hussein Onn all defended their policies even after their retirement. Why the silence?
In the beginning, I did not want to respond. I maintained my silence because I wanted to give Najib space, and allow people to be used to the idea of him as PM. If I engaged in a war of words with my detractors, it would involve Najib as well. He was my deputy for five-and-a-half years. He was at my side and was part of the many decisions that you might call controversial — the cancellation of the crooked bridge, rationalising oil subsidies — all these decisions were taken by the Cabinet collectively.

I will not absolve myself from blame because I was prime minister. But as Najib will tell you, almost every major decision we made was debated in the Cabinet and we collectively agreed on these decisions. I also want to stress that I have always had the best interests of the Barisan Nasional and the country at heart. I have stood by Umno since the day I joined it. My father was a loyal member of Umno and BN until he died. I never left Umno, no matter what my problems were; even when I was sacked from the Cabinet and sidelined in 1987, I remained loyal to Umno. So people can criticise me but unlike them, I never went and campaigned against Umno or the BN on an opposition platform; neither did I resign from Umno because of personality clashes. Loyalty is a virtue that cannot be bartered because of differences in views. No one should question my loyalty to the party or the country.
 
In the months following the 2008 general election, you set a timetable for your retirement. But despite setting a timetable for your exit, you were forced out earlier. Why did you have to accept this when you could have fought and won the battle against those who opposed you within the party?
Najib wanted enough time to establish himself before the next election. It meant bringing forward the date by a few months. He assured me that he would continue with some important policies such as the corridors, eradication of hardcore poverty, human capital development and the national mission which has now been incorporated into his high-income economy goal. I thought it would be good for the country and good for the party. Yes, I could have fought, I suppose. But that would have caused serious damage to Umno and the BN and people would have been forced to take sides. What would that have achieved? What would the winner of this battle inherit? A shell of a party? And what would have happened to the country when the ruling party was involved in such a divisive battle at the time when the global financial crisis needed all our attention? I love my country and Umno too much to destroy it like that.

Your exit in such a manner did not necessarily leave a united and stronger Umno as there is still a divide among the members today. Do you agree with such a view?
Which political party does not have factions? Look at DAP and PKR. Look at the parties in Japan, UK, US ... President Obama is facing divisions among his Democrats; Japan’s LDP has factions; the Tories and the Labour party have factions; it is no different here. I left as president of Umno so that the party could start the process of healing. And I believe Najib is slowly pulling people together, though I think he will have a challenge, because I sense that people still do not fully understand all his transformation plans, but I believe he is on the right track. I have always wanted Najib, as my successor, to do better than me and to succeed, and I will continue to support him in whatever way I can. I am not going to undermine him. That’s not my nature. In fact, I’ve made my feelings on this known to him, to the Cabinet, to the Umno and the BN supreme councils.

 
This article appeared in Options, the lifestyle pullout of The Edge Malaysia, Issue 844, Feb 7-13, 2011

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